From: flashlife@amd.com
Reply-To: flashlife@amd.com
Errors-To: flashlife-control@amd.com
Subject: Flashlife   V2 #7
To: flashlife@amd.com

From: Carl Rigney (moderator) <flashlife-control@amd.com>


Flashlife  Tue, 7 May, 1991   Volume 2 : Issue 7

Today's topics:

  APDS, combat and you. (Milord)
  Re: APDS Ammo (Andrew David Weiland)
  Re: APDS ammo (Laurence R. Brothers)
  Re: Tech priority 3 and 4 (Andrew David Weiland)
  making metahumans:  the easy way (ANANDA)
  Loughborough House-Rules (A Lump Of Putty)

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Date: Sat, 4 May 91 12:01:20 EDT
From: milord@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Milord)
Subject: APDS, combat and you.

	In the most recent flashlife, Roger Leroux asked about the effects
of APDS, noting that they might not be powerful enough.  Well, this brings
to mind a conversation our group was having last night.  We play modified
combat rules, the most notable of which is that all firefights stage up at
two, down at the listed value.  (Which makes sense).
	Combat has the nice point that it is fairly simple.  Pick a target
number, roll and figure damage.  Resist damage.  No messy charts, you just
have to know the range (basic target number) modifiers and damage code.
	Combat has the down side that it takes forever.  A combat that
lasts thirty seconds game time (and we've had a few) can take hours.  And
we play with a more deadly staging than the rules suggest.  What are we doing
wrong?
	We eventually decided that the armor was just too good.  A lined coat
will save you from a pistol.  No problem unless they stage it to a serious,
and even then, cool (most runners probably have enough dice between body
and dodge that getting two fours is easy, two sixes isn't that much a long
shot...)  Now comes the question...how do you fix it?
	I am somewhat enthralled by Carl's `DMZ' style combat (making
the condition monitors two boxes longer, number them 1-12 with one being
the final box, and 12 being two boxes below light) and whenever you take
damage, roll 2D6 and start the damage from that box (or higher, if that
box is full).  Now a light might be a scratch or a serious.  But I can
see where runners might not like it.
	Rolling Armor as dice?  Making the armor laws tougher?  What can
you do?  We decided that a stricter enforcement of the armor laws, combined
with an across the board drop of all armor by a point, might work, but it
would have to be tinkered with, probably.
	So, after this diatribe, what are your opinions in armor?  The guns
seem to be doing their jobs, but the armor is an overachiever....

	[I use weapons stage up by 2, down by their usual rating, and
	 armor gives one automatic success plus its rating in dice.
	 Seems to work pretty well.  Wearing Body armor is a crime,
	 firearms are crimes, military weapons or armor are a federal
	 crime.  --CDR]

	Brian Bankler

Coming Next Semester -- Hopkins Third Live Action Shadowrun Game!!  Watch
this space for details.  [Blatant Plug].


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Date: Sat,  4 May 91 13:03:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: APDS Ammo
References: <9105040155.AA18799@AMD.COM>

My method for handling AP weapons depends upon the rule automatic
success = automatic 6 (recently discussed in rec.games.frp).  By this
rule, each point of armor is counted as extra body dice that
automatically comes up 6 (plus another die).  This doesn't make armor
much less effective, but makes people in heavy armor a little less
confident.

AP ammo is marvelously effective; it doubles a bullet's force against
armor only.  Maybe that's why it's so restricted by law.  DS ammo
increases a bullet's force by 1 against all sorts of attacks.  Whether
or not you double the +1 bonus versus armor for APDS ammo (giving force
2n+2 versus armor instead of 2n+1 for a force n gun) is a matter of
taste.

Incidentially, another way to weaken armor is to count against the
resistance test extra success on the attack roll which do not increase
staging.  For example, a staging 2 weapon.  If the character gets 2
successes, that's 1 success more that armor and/or body dice must work
off.  Three successes are necessary to reduce the staging by 1 level; 5
successes to reduce it 2 levels.  You might want to say that extra
successes only apply against armor dice, not against body dice; i
considered that but found it was too much work, so i didn't bother.

-- 
Andrew D. M. U. Weiland  aw1s@andrew.cmu.edu	


--------------------------


Date: Mon, 6 May 91 10:52:23 -0400
From: quasar@puddle.bellcore.com (Laurence R. Brothers)
Subject: Re: APDS ammo

Let's face it, APDS ammo is just a random extension to the ammo table.

I assume by "armor piercing discarding sabot" we mean something like depleted
uranium or osmium or some such in a core, maybe with a shaped charge.

I don't know if that can be fit into a typical bullet and still be
effective. If so, then sure, it might well ignore kevlar or bodyarmor. On
the other hand, it might do less damage since I assume it would tend to
exit cleanly from the body?

If it makes you feel better about it, call them something else or raise
the effect and make sure it's as hard to get and expensive as it should
be, considering the materials and workmanship that go into each bullet.

I find the power level quite satisfactory, considering I have a party
who has found their AK-98's with APDS quite effective against true-form
soldier ants [Spoiler omitted --CDR], even with the "immunity to
bullets" power doubling their ballistic armor protection. a 7 shot
burst of 6S3 hits works pretty well against even high armor classes. On
the other hand, they haven't gotten to the force-5 soldiers with, what,
10 ballistic armor, yet....

-- 
Laurence Brothers
quasar@bellcore.com


--------------------------


Date: Sat,  4 May 91 13:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tech priority 3 and 4
References: <9105040155.AA18799@AMD.COM>

While priority 4 of anything is powerful, tech priority 4 is obscene. 
With skills, the limitation of 6 still applies; your character can be
good at a lot of things, but he won't be better at his speciality than a
priority 2 skills character.  For attributes, there's only so much high
ability scores will do for a character.  Priority 4 in race
(metahumanity) is severely disadvantaged.  Priority 4 in magic (full
magician) is powerful, but has its own limitations.

Tech priority 4 is also limited, because there's only so much stuff a
character can buy and take with him on a run (or even carry around with
him for that matter).

A street samurai with priority 3 would be okay, but not too powerful.  A
decker or rigger with priority 3 isn't.  I'm merely pointing out that
these characters should take priority 4, because of their background. 
Maybe for a samurai the skills make the difference, but the hardware
makes the samurai, not the skills.

As for contacts; i don't think 40 is necessary to get what you want. 
Contacts are assumed to familiar acquaintances, with whom you are on
good (if not wondeful) terms.  Ten contacts is enough for any fixer of
detective; if you need something they can't provide, then one of them
can point you to a friend.

1.  Yes, Essence is a check against cyberware.  So tech priority 4 is
wasted on a samurai unless, as i stated, you give them alpha and beta
cyberware (i don't).

2.  For one of "A few things" include a helicopter with a heavy machine
gun and an assualt cannon, plus an extra 10 contacts (not bad for a
rigger).  He used a total of 3 contacts (one was a PC) in the adventure,
and never got a chance to show off his helicopter (this was in part my
design; he'd be a lot happier assaulting a wilderness stronghold in his
helicopter, but i didn't want to run that).

As stated before, a character starts out with two free contacts. 
Contacts are very hard to buy, as they can be very useful in the right
circumstances (and it's always useful to have a contact to talk to, even
if he can't offer any help for this adventure).  This depends on the
campaign; a GM can make your contacts useless any time he wants.  On the
other hand, a GM can use contacts as sources for adventures and as a
calvary to rescue the party from a hose scenario (usually losing some of
the party's precious equipment in the process, but hey that's life).

-- 
Andrew D. M. U. Weiland  aw1s@andrew.cmu.edu	


--------------------------


Date: Mon, 6 May 1991 22:52 CDT
From: ANANDA%BSU.DECNET@MSUS1.BITNET
Subject: making metahumans:  the easy way

I am using an easy system for creating metahuman characters.  The Race priority
levels are changed as follows:

	Points		Race (old sytem)  	Race (new system)
	  0		Human			Human
	  1		Human			Ork
	  2		Human			Elf
	  3 		Human			Troll
	  4		Metahuman		Dwarf

The basis for the change is the fact that not all metahumans are created 
equal.  The adjustments to various statistics are not all equal between the
different metahuman races.  The cumulative stat adjustments are modified
further by the other adjustments (e.g., +1 reach for trolls).  The Ork and Elf
have equivalent adjustment totals, but I place the Ork at the lower point cost.
There are two main reasons for this:  first, orks tend to be more common than
elves; second, orks are not as well-treated as are elves in the predominantly
human society.    [But why do grumpies rank so high?? --CDR]

If you want metahumans - particularly orks and elves - to be less common in
your campaign, you might consider the following table:

	Points		Race (old sytem)  	Race (new system)
	  0		Human			Human
	  1		Human			Human
	  2		Human			Human
	  3 		Human			Elf or Ork
	  4		Metahuman		Dwarf or Troll

(If you use this, and your players always go for elves over orks and dwarves
over trolls, you may need to give some other incentive to play an ork or
troll.)


My players' favorite npc is an ork mage who goes by the name of Grunt.  In
actuality, Grunt is a scholarly, erudite sort who is quite the elder British
gentleman.  His 'real' name is Daniel O'Neill, so some people occaisionally
compare him to "Neil, the Ork Barbarian" of simsense fame.  Of course, he takes
this all in stride, sometimes even doing a "Neil, the Ork Barbarian" imitation,
which is really quite amusing when done with his heavy British accent.  :-)

--
Ananda
ananda%bsu.decnet@msus1.msus.edu  /ananda%bsu@msus1.msus.edu \__if the .decnet 
ananda%bsu.decnet@msus1.bitnet    \ananda%bsu@msus1.bitnet   /  causes problems


--------------------------


Date: Mon, 6 May 91 14:25:25 BST
From: A Lump Of Putty <R.J.Hay@loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Loughborough House-Rules

Due to the `loose' nature of the SHADOWRUN rules GM's often start introducing
house rules or modifying the existing ones . This is definately all for the good
of things, but here at Loughborough we encountered the problem that with 7 refs
these differences in rules started to seriously affect play (for instance 
players often wanted to know who the ref was before they chose what equipment to
take on a Run, due to its differing effects). So anyway, we eventually got 
together and thrashed out the rules we were going to adopt uniformly, and as it
was the result of many hours of discussion I thought it may be of some value /
interest to you folks out there . 
 
(Of relevance to present topics on flashlife is R 22 on Contacts)
So here they are ; (`R` for Rules, `G` for Guidelines)

	  THE AGREED UNIFORM RULES AND GUIDELINES FOR LOUGHBOROUGH GM'S

R 1	Flechette rounds go against just the target's impact armour's rating.

R 2	If a shotgun misses treat as if it had hit but with it's power rating
	reduced by 1-3 .  

R 3 	Ammo consumption; triangular summation, halved if gun is smart. 
	i.e.;                Normal   Smart 
		1 Burst		1	1
		2 Bursts  	3	2
		3 Bursts	6	3
		4 Bursts       10	5
		5 Bursts       15	8
		6 Bursts       21      11
		7 Bursts       28      14

	Note: A reactivly triggered gun only ever uses 2 bullets for it's 2
	      shots.

R 4	You cannot fit both a silencer and a gas vent to the same gun, unless
	one is integral.

R 5	Grenade damage;  Standard - 5D2
			  I.P.E.  - 6D2   
	against impact armour.

R 6	Timed fused grenade settings;
	Can be set to 1-7 sec. in one action.
	Can be set to 8-60 sec. in three actions.
	  Treat one second as being 10 Action Points. (A combat turn taking
	30 Action Points).
	A grenade will detonate 2D6-7 points after the desired time setting.
	If a player has not specified a grenade's setting, and throws it
	without setting the fuse it is assumed to be set to 3 Seconds.

R 7	Grenade burst radii; 
	  For a narrow burst grenade: everything up to, But Not Including, one
	metre away from an exploding grenade takes normal damage. Everthing from
	one metre up to, But Not Including, two metres away takes damage with 
	one less power level. Etc.

R 8	If a grenade explodes in a person's hand, he or she takes normal damage,
	but with no armour protection. If this caused a serious or deadly wound
	the person's hand has been blown off.

R 9	Mini-grenades cannot deviate by more than half the distance they were 
	fired.

R10	Air-timed mini-grenades deviate normaly (as above) but without any
	depth deviation.
	i.e    Deviation Direction      Distance From Centre Of Blast
		     1 or 4                         zero
		     2 or 3             2/3 deviation distance to the right
		     5 or 6             2/3 deviation distance to the left

	N.B.: GM's should always consider the effects of terrain on the path of 
	      the grenade. (It has been left undecided what occurs when the
	      grenade's deviation direction is short of the target).

R11	Grenade Cost;
	   Type                Cost  
	Explosive		30  
	Concussion		30
	Neuro-Stun		60
	Flash			40
	Smoke			40

	Standard Mini          x5/3   (Explosive or Concussion only)
	Air-Timed Mini         x 3    (   "      "       "      "  )
	I.P.E.                 x8/3

	e.g.: An air-timed I.P.E. mini concussion grenade would cost;
		30 x 3 x 8/3 = 240 

R12	When grenades are bought impact or timed fuses must be stipulated.
	If both are chosen the grenade costs double.

R13	Bayonets attack as knives with +1 reach.

R14	Luck Rolls: Karma cannot be used to affect a luck roll, but may be
	used to simulate the effects thereof.
	e.g.; A pair off restraints not working properly may be due to a luck
	      roll, but the only way in which to burn Karma to assist you is to
	      buy off the successes of the person who put them on.

R15	A gun only recieves it's Automatic Fire Bonus (+1 power level) when
	firing on full auto, i.e 7 bursts.

R16 	Solid slug shotgun ammo does +1 power level damage.

R17	Solid slug shotgun ammo can be bought as APDS, scatter shot cannot.

R18  	For Weapons With Stocks Only:
	  +1 recoil compensation can be gained if one action has been spent
	bracing a weapon with a stock. An additional +1 is gained if the
	appropriate shock pad is being worn. All rifles and MG's have stocks.
	It takes one action to unfold a folding stock. An SMG with it's stock
	unfolded has -2 to it's concealability. Bracing is lost if the firer 
	moves or the weapon fires more bursts than it can fully compensate for.

R19	Stabilisation takes one minute, divided by the number of successes.
	The target number is 10 base (as on page144) not as on page67.

R20	TEMPORARY, due to ongoing discussion:
	  Medkits add their three dice to Biotech rolls (note there must be a 
	medic actually performing the first aid). Mediccing without a kit's drug
	supply, or something similar, is automatically terrible conditions.

R21	The body roll against death's target number is the number of minutes
	that elapsed before successful stabilisation began.            	

R22	The number of starting Contacts a character may have is equal to his
	etiquette skill(s). The type of Contact (street, corp, military, etc.)
	has to be the same as the etiquette, except for one contact which can be
	chosen from any catergory (although it still has to be `bought' with a 
	point from an etiquette of the players choice) . The effects of a
	character increasing his etiquette skill(s) with Karma has yet to be
	decided, as has the effect of etiquette skillsofts.

R23	A reactively triggered assault cannon firing two shells has a recoil
	modifier of +2.

G 1	All ways possible, including street cred and the police, should be
	used to tone down PC armour and weaponry.

G 2	The ranges on assault rifles, SMG's, and LMG's seem to be out of sinc.
	with eachother at ranges over medium, as this usually does not occur
	there has been no solid ruling made on this.

G 3	Watch out for the abuse of auto-successes

G 4	Remember it's the number of successes that's important, not the highest
	number rolled.

G 4	Note that a character's wounds may heal of their own accord, given
	time (see page142).

G 5	Note limb/organ loss only occurs due to a single deadly wound.


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End of Flashlife
**************************
